At various points in my life, I finished up a task and excitedly, dutifully, or resignedly announced its completion by saying “I’m done”. And most of the times, this was met with a congratulation, or at least warm indifference. On rare occasions, it was met with a succinct rebuke:
“Cakes are done. People are finished.”
That was all; no explanation given, and me left sitting there wondering why, if the subject of cake was going to be broached, it wasn’t to give me one as a reward. Because the response was so untethered to rational explanation, I would quickly forget about it, only to be reminded each time that I bothered to tell this person that I was done.
Well, I’m done. And so’s the rule. Let me turn the floor over to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage (MWDEU):
“Done in the sense of ‘finished’ has been subject to a certain amount of criticism over the years for reasons that are not readily apparent.”
The reasons aren’t unreadily apparent, either; they simply aren’t. MWDEU traces the prohibition against humans being done to MacCracken and Sandison’s 1917 book Manual of Good English, which offers no explanation for its impropriety. In the near-century since, no one else has found a reason for it either. What passes for a justification is that one-liner I quoted above; for instance, in one professor’s list of “errors to avoid“, we’re given this explanation, posted in its entirety:
“30. If something has been completed, it is finished–it is not ‘done’. Remember, cakes are done; people are finished.”
It looks to me that the real reason why people started complaining about this usage is that it had two signs of the prescriptivist devil: it was a new usage, and it was a non-standard usage. To be done, the MWDEU reports, supplanted to have done for states of being starting sometime in the 1700s or earlier, which on a prescriptivist timescale somehow counts as “new”. Furthermore, the OED classifies this usage as chiefly Irish, Scottish, American, and dialectal, which to a prescriptivist is just a long way of saying improper. And usually finished sounds fancier than done, which no doubt contributed to the distaste for done.
But unless you believe in 300-year-old grudges, there’s no reason to be against people being done. According to the OED, Thomas Jefferson used it, as did Jeremy Bentham (the philospoher, not the Lost character) and others. There’s no grammatical logic why done and finished are any different, either. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if it weren’t for its snappy motto, this injunction would long ago gone the way of the dodo. Let’s try to help it toward that fate.
Summary: Cakes are done; people are finished? Nope. Cakes can also be finished and people can also be done. And stop mentioning cake if you’re only teasing me.
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March 17, 2011 at 8:21 am
dw
I can confirm that it’s an Anglo-American difference: when I moved to the US from England I learned to say “done”, whereas in England everyone says “finished”.
I wasn’t aware that anyone stigmatized “done”: indeed I rather like it myself.
March 17, 2011 at 8:49 am
Karen L
A long time ago in grade 1, I was taught that, in French, people HAVE finished. That made some sense to me. So for the longest time, I preferred to say I have finished rather than I’m finished. “I have done” just seemed wrong, so, I’d always state what I’d done. I have done the laundry. But eventually, I realised that saying I have finished took some mental effort because nobody talks like that. Now, I’m equally happy with I’m finished the laundry and I’m done the laundry, in informal speech.
I do think I make some other minor distinctions between finished and done, though not because of properness or style (that I’ve noticed.) For example, “the cakes are done” could mean to me either that they have been fully cooked or that they’ve been iced and decorated as much as they’re going to be. Whereas, I think “the cakes are finished” would only mean the latter to me.
March 17, 2011 at 10:05 am
Dw
@Karen L
I should have been more explicit: in England, people generally say “I’ve finished”, not “I’m finished”.
So it’s not really accurate to say that “nobody talks like that” :)
March 17, 2011 at 10:07 am
Dw
“I’m finished”, to me, could only mean something like “I’m ruined” or “I’m about to die”.
March 17, 2011 at 10:48 am
Azlan
Great article. Just like dw, i too did not know that the usage of ‘done’ warrants disparagement from some people. Well, not that it matters though because as you said,
“Cakes are done; people are finished? Nope. Cakes can also be finished and people can also be done. ”
@ Karen L
“Now, I’m equally happy with I’m finished the laundry and I’m done the laundry, in informal speech.”
I’m not being nitpicky, but i do think you should add ‘with’ in between -I’m finished/done- and -the laundry-.
March 17, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Warsaw Will
@dw – are you sure ‘everyone’ in England says finished. OK, I’m Scottish, but an RP speaker who now works amongst an assortment of Brits. When I say ‘OK, I’m done.’ when I’ve finished with the photocopier and someone else wants on, I’m not aware that anyone thinks I’m speaking ‘strange’. And I’m pretty sure my colleagues say it as well sometimes. But I would say it’s on the informal side.
@Karen L – I agree it would have to be “I’ve done something”. But I don’t think anyone says ‘I’ve done’ full stop (period), do they? Only ‘I’m done.’
@Azlan – interesting point, but I think I would only say ‘I’m done with’ a piece of equipment, not an activity, so for example – ‘I’m done with the washing machine’. But if someone said ‘I’m done with the laundry’, it would sound to me as if they’d had enough; they were fed up with it.
March 17, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Kei$haFan4Evr
omg what about saying “i’m spent” how does that work???
March 17, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Chrissy
My Irish, Scottish, American side of the family has a pun to add to this conversation.
My grandfather is a Nesbitt, my grandmother a Dunne. When my dad or his siblings said, “I’m all done!” instead of hearing about a hypothetical cake, they would be told, “No you’re not. You’re half Dunne half Nesbitt.”
March 17, 2011 at 6:22 pm
emily
That professor’s list of pet peeves reminded me of this post I saw a while back (see below). It’s a good one. The drawings are fantastic.
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
Nice job as always, Gabe.
March 17, 2011 at 8:30 pm
Carolyn
I read this as a regionalism, with lower prestige assigned to the version that is used in the South.
In the case of, say, a meal that had to be eaten before I could be excused from the table, I would say to my mother (Connecticut Yankee) “I’m finished.” When I grew up enough to mingle at mealtime with other kids in Alabama, I found out that they said to their mothers, “I’m done.”
My mother would have understood ‘I’m done’, and would probably not have remonstrated with me about it, but she never said it; I understood that if I wanted to sound more like my mother (or didn’t want to sound southern, in the north) ‘I’m finished’ was preferable. I don’t say “fixing to…” or “go ahead and…” in Massachusetts, either, though I’m happy to in Alabama.
Adding the ‘with’ afterward removes the regional tang, to my ear; Emerson’s “Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could,” sounds like perfectly standard English.
I’d file this rule under Pedantry, not Pedagogy.
March 18, 2011 at 4:32 am
Azlan
@ Warsaw Will:
Thanks for the information. If I may ask, in response to your reply, what do we say then upon completion of an activity? Is it, say, “I am done the laundry?” For some reason, I find it hard to swallow. lol.
You see, English is my second language. So there are expressions which I have to trouble the native speakers to really break them down to me on their appropriateness.
March 18, 2011 at 7:55 am
andygodfrey
@dw: I don’t know about relative frequency of use, but I certainly hear both “I’m done” and “I’m finished” used in the UK to mean the same as “I’ve finished” (I’m an RP speaker from southern England).
March 18, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Karen L
@Warsaw Will,
Agreed that “I’m done with the laundry” could mean that I’m fed up with it. I might also add the “with” for fluidity in some contexts but not just for equipment. For example,
“I’m done with the laundry and I’m moving on to the vacuuming”
feels a little more fluid than
“I’m done the laundry and I’m moving on to the vacuuming.”
Maybe it indicates that I’m thinking of “the laundry” as a work station, which is equipment-like.
@dw,
Inaccuracy noted. Sorry if you felt some erasure of your regionality. I can relate – I’m Canadian. However, you’ll note that the inaccuracy is kinda irrelevant to my anecdote of how I gave my speech an affect by transferring a French grammar lesson rather than adopting the common speech in my environment.
@Azlan,
How is that not nit-picking? And I don’t think you “should” tell people, who aren’t your children or pupils, when they “should” use or omit prepositions. But I’ll try to answer your most recent question anyway. Even though, the best answer is probably “it depends on who you are, what the task is, where you live and who’s listening to you.”
-The choice of done versus finished with covered by the OP. I also think that there might be some further minor differences, like my example of cooking versus decorating.
-You probably can’t go wrong using have instead of am though it may sound affected in some regions to some ears.
-I’ve or I’m would be more common in informal situations than I have or I am.
-Using “with” or omitting it may also make some minor change to the meaning.
All that said, I doubt that any combination of the above ranging from “I have finished with the laundry” to “I’m done the laundry” will cause confusion, awkwardness, or even mark your speech as ESL in most situations. That said, “I am done the laundry,” as you wrote, sounds a little off. “I’m done the laundry” sounds more natural.
You might also want to be aware that “I’m finished” (but not “I have finished”) can also have the meaning of “I am ruined” or “I’m exhausted” or “I’m all washed-up” but I doubt that you’d confuse those from a situation where someone is declaring a task complete.
March 18, 2011 at 2:03 pm
Warsaw Will
@Azlan – normal Present Perfect – ‘I’ve done the laundry’ – ‘I’m done’ is quite idiomatic, and I would only use it for ‘I’m finished’, as Gabe used it in the original post. See also this note for Karen:
@Karen L – I can go with your ‘I’m done with …’ sentence, let’s call it a matter of personal choice, but I wouldn’t have thought any native speaker would say ‘I’m done the laundry’ – that simply doesn’t sound like a well-formed sentence to me (unless it’s an AmE or dialect thing, in which case I apologise).
But in certain parts of London you might hear ‘I done the laundry, ain’t I?’ And in with respect to your last point, I think we can also use ‘I’m all done in’ with the same meaning.
@andygodfrey – since my last comment I asked my English colleagues (well one colleague) and he uses it the same way as me. But good that you confirmed it.
@emily – Her list includes at least four I disagree with as well as the ‘done / finished’ bit:
‘Who(m) is for people. That is for animals and things.’ – Not in TEFL it’s not.
‘Whom can be replaced by him or them etc.’ (what happened to her?) – Or just use ‘who’, like the rest of us.
‘Avoid using “hopefully”.’ – Hopefully this idiotic idea will disappear soon.
No singular they – Just this inelegant ‘he/she’ nonsense
But in her favour she does say that these are just her pet peeves, unlike some other grammar ‘experts’.
March 18, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Warsaw Will
@Karen L – Sorry, an stray preposition crept in there somehow.
March 18, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Karen L
@Warsaw Will,
Yeah, I’m not sure I have a preference for “done” or for “done with” in general. In fact, I’m pretty sure I use both and likely use them interchangeably in many informal situations. But I was trying to figure out why in some instances I might prefer one to the other. But I am quite sure that “I’m done” can be fully formed. “I done” not so much.
I might even use have and am interchangeably in many situations. My laundry example forces my thinking to informal speech. I probably prefer have for formal speech. And if it’s a rather formal situation, I’d probably prefer finished, too.
It’s hard to think of an example when I would likely say “I have done ….” but neither “I have finished …” nor “I’m done / I am done …” Oh – maybe if something is countable. “I’ve done 3 loads of laundry today” sounds good. “I’m done 3 loads” sounds weird, even more so: “I’m done 3 loads today.”
As for “I’m all done in,” I recognise it but I don’t hear it much, nor would I use it. I’d assume it was from a speaker of British English.
March 19, 2011 at 11:53 am
Warsaw Will
@Karen L – But I am a speaker of BrE – I think we’re coming to some sort of consensus. And I certainly wasn’t putting forward ‘I done it’ as Standard English, but as far as Cockney’s concerned, it’s perfectly formed.
But I’m afraid I still have a problem with ‘I’m done the laundry’ – to me it simply isn’t natural English, whether BrE, AmE, Scottish, Cockney or whatever.
I’m no expert but I presume ‘I’m done’ is either a passive-like construction, or possibly a linking verb with predicative adjective. In either case I don’t see how we can just tack on a direct object. It goes against basic sentence structure.
The only way it would make sense would be if there’s a particular dialect where you can substitute ‘be’ for ‘have’ in Perfect tenses. Is that what you’re saying?
March 19, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Karen L
@warsaw will,
I realised that you were a speaker of BrE and that you weren’t proposing “I done it” as standard. I guess that wasn’t clear. But I see the concensus forming too. But I think the difference has been in how we are parsing the parts of speech in “I’m done the laundry.”
I guess I’m not sure exactly what “well-formed” means but I’m quite certain that “I’m done the laundry” is certainly common enough, if not standard in my area.
I definitely wouldn’t generalise to saying that I have a dialect that has the sentence structure you suggest. I think we’re parsing “I’m done the laundry differently.” I don’t think I’d do it with any other verb, if we consider done as a verb. I’m walked home? No way. I’m eaten the cake. Nope. I think that this (I’m done the laundry) may be a very specific usage for “to do” where the “done” doesn’t exactly serve as the verb with be as a modal for it. I’m not just swapping am in for have in “I have done the laundry.”
When I say “I’m done the laundry” it _feels_ to me like “to be” (am) is the verb and “done the laundry” is modifying me. Much in the sense of I am “done with the laundry”, where “done with the laundry” describes me – possibly, though not necessarily, in the sense of being fed up with it. Anyway, it feels more like that than I’m using to be as a modal for to do.
I don’t think this is so different from “I’m done,” when used after finishing a meal. I feel like to be is the verb and done describes my state of having nothing left to eat or having no more appetite. I’m just embellishing the “doneness”. I’m done eating. I’m done my food. To me, “I’m done (full stop)” has some kind of implied part of speech to come, e.g., eating or my food. So I’m done. done what? done my food, done eating, done the laundry.
Out of curiousity, would you ever say “I’m done eating” or “I’m done my food” as a slight expansion of “I’m done” at the end of your meal? Or not think twice if someone else said it to you?
Because this has been causing me to question my own sanity, I googled my 16 possible combinations that I listed for Azlan (which should also help answer hir question.) I’ll note that I failed to consider the combination “I have done with the laundry,” which would not cause confusion but definitely mark the speech as non-standard. “Done with” seems to win the popular vote by a landslide but I think there might be something more going on with “done with the laundry” because it appears in at least one popular song.
Anyway, it was a successful sanity check for me because “I’m done the laundry” had slightly more results than “I have finished the laundry” and “I’ve finished the laundry,” which seem unquestionably standard and well-formed to me.
Anyway, thanks for taking my ideas seriously and pursuing the conversation. I’m not a linguist, language student, or grammarian – just someone who remembers some of the names of parts of speech from highschool (many) years ago.
Here are the google outcomes with results to the left of the sentence.
1 “I have finished with the laundry.”
4 “I’ve finished with the laundry.”
4000 “I have finished the laundry.”
3820 “I’ve finished the laundry.”
9900 “I am finished with the laundry.”
22500 “I’m finished with the laundry.”
7 “I am finished the laundry.”
766 “I’m finished the laundry.”
0 “I have done with the laundry.”
2* “I’ve done with the laundry.”
35200 “I have done the laundry.”
25200 “I’ve done the laundry.”
101000 “I am done with the laundry.”
441000** “I’m done with the laundry.”
10 “I am done the laundry.”
5250 “I’m done the laundry.”
31500 “I finished the laundry.”
43700 “I did the laundry.”
*Huh, I would have expected these to have a different sense: as in “I don’t know what I’ve done with the laundry but it’s all pink now.” Both were used in the sense of the completed task.
**I massaged the search parameters a little to avoid one song by the Pussy Cat Dolls that seems to triple the number of results.
March 19, 2011 at 7:51 pm
Karen L
Ugh. forgot to close my italics tag.
March 21, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Dan
As a native Midwesterner who has lived in the Pacific Northwest and now NYC, I can say that I have never in my life heard “I’m done the laundry,” and it sounds as though it’s missing a word. “I’m done eating” sounds completely natural, but “I’m done the food” comes across as broken English to my ear.
This is, of course, completely unscientific and wholly anecdotal, but my experience suggests that “I’m done the laundry” (and similar phrasing) is not terribly widespread, at least in the US.
March 21, 2011 at 6:30 pm
Karen L
So, it would seem that this is a Canadianism. A google search of “I’m done the dishes” led me to various threads on language boards discussing “I’m done —–” versus “I’m done with —–”.
Quoting someone named taghgka on some site called Word Reference:
“This construction is very normal in Canadian English, while most people from the US or Britain will find it ungrammatical. The same goes for “I’m finished X”, as in “I’m finished my homework”, which in my experience Americans find about as bad as “I’m done the dishes.”
The judgement that these are fine sentences is very robust among the Canadian speakers I’ve checked with — they are usually VERY surprised to learn that Americans can’t say the same things.
As a note, “I’m done the dishes” doesn’t mean the same thing as “I’m done WITH the dishes”, but instead entails: “the dishes are done”. I’m not sure if “be done” means exactly the same thing as “have done”, though.”
So yep, I am, and remain, one of those Canadian speakers with a robust belief that those sentences are fine (in informal contexts.) I will cherish said belief along with pride in “eh”, “ewt”, curling, and ice hockey. Still don’t think it’s (much) more ungrammatical than I’m done eating or I’m done full-stop.
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1522997
March 21, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Karen L
And FWIW, I don’t think that “have done” and “be done” have exactly the same meaning (in Canadian English). I think there’s a reason for “be done.”
When I say, “I have done the laundry, dishes, and vacuuming,” I’m emphasising myself and my actions, what I have been DOING. It might answer the question, “What have you been up to today?”
When I say, “I am done the laundry, dishes, and vacuuming,” I’m emphasising the tasks that are now DONE. It might answer the question, “Are your chores done?” or “What have you accomplished today?
March 22, 2011 at 6:24 pm
Dan M.
I agree with the Canadian speakers that “I’m done the dishes.” is perfectly good, and I speak only American English, though I am from New Hampshire, which is pretty darned close to Canada in a lot of ways.
To my ear, “I’m done with the dishes.” fairly strongly suggests that I’m going to continue doing housework, but not dishes, while “I’m done the dishes.” could mean that or equally well could mean that I’m going to go read now that the last of my housework is completed.
March 23, 2011 at 1:03 pm
ambermartingale
Interesting article.
June 16, 2011 at 8:33 am
Suzie
I disagree. You say what you like, but I think “I’m done” does not sound correct. I prefer to say cakes are done and people are through or finished. It’s probably how one is brought up. When I hear someone say done instead of finished or through, I think they haven’t been taught correct usage or in some cases have chosen to disregard what they were taught.
December 2, 2011 at 1:02 pm
JH
“I’m done the dishes” doesn’t sound right to me (American English). Personally I’d say either of these equivalently:
“I am done with the dishes”
“I have done the dishes”
May 18, 2012 at 7:52 pm
Jerbee
Hi everyone! I have read your debate on this website about the correct usage of ” I’m done., I have done.,I’m finished., and I have finished.” Let me share you something about the thoughts of English teachers here in the Philippines about the above-mentioned topics. “I’m done .or I am finished sounds like you are dying or you ‘re dead.”I have done. or I have finished” refers to the things you have accomplished in that particular moment in a form of present perfect. In that case, if we study about the use of every word in the sentence, we can somehow realise what it really implies. If we use present be verb plus past participle which can also be an adjective, the expression will mean either you’re dead or have completed the task depending on what your ideas go like.And if we use the present perfect form has/have plus the past participle, it will only mean a completion of certain job or assignment.Generally, the meaning of the previous one depends on the thoughts you want to convey to the person you are talking to.So, when someone opposes, just tell him the idea you are emphasizing.What do you think? By the way, I’m Filipino- English teacher. I always consult your website when i do have grammar pet peeves.I really helps me a lot.Thanks!
May 18, 2012 at 7:54 pm
Jerbee
I mean it really helps me in my grammar sojourn.
May 31, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Kim
I have a two year old daughter to whom I would like, very much, to convey a sense of proper upbringing. This means to me that her parents also have a certain savvy about “old school” etiquette as it pertains to grammar. Along with this example, which seems to illicit an inordinate amount of rage among users of “done” in lieu of “finished”, she will learn to practice other forgotten niceties such as indicating she is finished with a meal at a restaurant by placing her fork and knife together at the five o’clock position. Soon, printed penmanship will be argued to be just as formal as cursive on the envelope holding a wedding invitation, and calligraphy will be a lost art (or so you people who are “done” with it would have it be). Libraries will be museums, face to face dating will be obsolete…you see where I am heading…
Let’s reinforce the few elements of a refined civility we have so that future generations may still be welcomed into the cherished existence of a group who values our heritage as evolved people. All of this is stated with love.
May 31, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Gabe
Kim: In college, I used to spend my Saturday afternoons (and occasionally Saturday evenings as well) going to the third floor of the library, where etiquette books dating back to the 19th century were kept. I spent time trying to memorize which of the fifteen or so forks was to be placed where for a formal dinner in the various decades. I knew how to leave calling cards upon visiting an absent acquaintance. I wanted to be cultured.
I understand your interest in teaching your daughter manners, and I appreciate it as someone who may one day interact with her. But nothing else you’re saying makes sense. If you honestly think that my failing to adhere to a non-sensical and unattested distinction between two equally valid adjectives makes me want to leave libraries in the dust, destroy mannered interactions, and create crappy wedding invitations, well, just remember how I spent my Saturdays.
July 20, 2012 at 8:47 am
RobertSeattle
I would be that in software, “Done” is often used intstead of “Finished” simply because Done is shorter in the User Interface and sometimes work length is critical.
September 13, 2012 at 10:18 pm
Drina Fried
By the time I finished reading the article above, I went to the oven and lo and behold my turkey was done.
September 23, 2012 at 4:47 pm
terry
all I know is that my mom use to reply to me after I said “i’m done” (something), “i’m done is only used after going to the bathroom”
!
October 12, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Gerald Summers
Having been taught back in the dark ages when teachers still used rulers for purposes other than measurement, we were taught the difference between, “done,” and “finished.” The former was considered for use only by, “trailer trash.” When an errant student said, “I’m done,” the teacher would invariably ask: “Are you a muffin?” We did not forget thereafter, for when an entire class laughs at your mistake, whether it is a mistake or not it is tattooed on your mind forever after.
December 6, 2012 at 1:32 pm
whippedkreme8
Sorry, don’t know if this has been asked because I didn’t read all the comments, but “I’m done the laundry”…ummm…seriously? who says that? It sounds completely ESL to me. (AmE from California is my first language and I’ve lived in various parts of the US and the UK. I also know quite a number of Canadians, Aussies, and Kiwis and have never heard that said before. ) “I’m done with the laundry” could have the meaning of being fed up with it, but the context, tone of voice, etc is important in determining whether or not that is the case.
March 14, 2013 at 9:54 am
ken lang
Maybe it’s like “hanged” for people and “hung” for pictures. In other words, maybe those speakers of a previous time thought that certain verbs, when applied to people, should have a more polite or euphemistic form.
e.g. An animal sweats….a human perspires.
Ken L. Freelance announcer, Windsor Ontario Canada.