If English words were Norse gods, perhaps than would be the best candidate to play the role of Loki, the trickster god.* It causes confusion not only due to its similarity with then, but also by raising the question of what case the noun phrase it governs should have. Of course, there’s no confusion if you are a brilliant grammaticaster, as in this example from a list of peeves:
12. I/Me: We had several different takes on this, with one correspondent nailing it thus: “The correct choice can be seen when you finish the truncated sentence: He’s bigger than I am. ‘He’s bigger than me am’ actually sounds ridiculous and obviates the mistake.”**
Now, there’re two questions one should be asking of this explanation. First, can you just fill in the blank? By which I mean, does a sentence with ellipsis (the omission of words that are normally syntactically necessary but understood by context) necessarily have the same structure as a non-elided sentence? There are many different types of ellipsis, so this is a more complex question than I want to get into right now, but the short answer is no, and here’s a question-and-answer example:
Who drank my secret stash of ginger-grapefruit soda?
(1a) He/*Him drank it.
(1b) Him/*He.
(The asterisks indicate ungrammatical forms.) The second question to ask here is whether there even is an elision. We know that “He eats faster than I do” is a valid sentence, but does than necessarily trigger a clause after it? Could it be that “He eats faster than me” is not an incomplete version of the above structure but rather a different and complete structure?
This boils down to the question of whether than is strictly a conjunction (in which cases the conjoined things should be equivalent, i.e., both clauses) or can function as a preposition as well (in which case the following element is just a noun phrase, with accusative case from the preposition). It’s pretty easy to see that than behaves prepositionally in some circumstances, pointed out in the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, via Language Log:
(2a) He’s inviting more people than just us.
(2b) I saw no one other than Bob.
But this prepositional usage has become frowned upon, save for instances like (2a) & (2b) where it’s unavoidable. Why? Well, it’s an interesting tale involving the love of Latin and the discoverer of dephlogisticated air. It all starts (according to the MWDEU) with Robert Lowth, who in 1762 claimed, under the influence of Latin, that than is a conjunction and noun phrases following it carry an understood verb. The case marking (e.g., I vs. me) would then be assigned based on the noun phrase’s role in the implied clause. So Lowth’s grammar allows (3a) and (3b) but blocks (3c):
(3a) He laughed much louder than I (did).
(3b) He hit you harder than (he hit) me.
(3c) *He laughed much louder than me.
Lowth’s explanation was not without its wrinkles; he accepted than whom as standard (possibly due to Milton’s use of it in Paradise Lost), and worked out a post hoc explanation for why this prepositional usage was acceptable and others like (3c) weren’t.
Lowth’s explanation was also not without its dissenters. Joseph Priestley, a discoverer of oxygen, argued against it in his Rudiments of English Grammar (1772 edition). Priestley noted that the combination of a comparative adjective and than behaved prepositionally, and that good writers used it as such. Regarding the Lowthian argument against it, he wrote:
“It appears to me, that the chief objection our grammarians have to both these forms, is that they are not agreeable to the idiom of the Latin tongue, which is certainly an argument of little weight, as that language is fundamentally different from ours”
Another pro-prepositionist was William Ward, whose 1765 Essay on Grammar argues that than in phrases like to stand higher than or to stand lower than is akin to prepositions like above or below, and thus that the prepositional usage of than should be allowed. That’s not much of an argument, because semantically equivalent words and phrases don’t have to have the same syntax — consider I gave him it vs. *I donated him it. But then again, Lowth is basing his argument on a completely separate language, so this is a slight improvement.
The real key, of course, is usage, and the MWDEU notes that Priestey and Ward are backed by standard usage at the time. Visser’s Historical English Syntax strengths the case with examples of prepositional than from a variety of estimable sources, including the Geneva Bible (1560), Shakespeare (1601), Samuel Johnson (1751, 1759), and Byron (1804). And of course prepositional than continues in modern usage — why else would we be having this argument?
Despite the irrelevance of his argument, Lowth’s opinion has stuck through to the present day, reinvigorated by new voices repeating the same old line, unwilling to concede something’s right just because it’s never been wrong. It’s the MWDEU, not the commenter mentioned at the top, who nails it:
“Ward’s explanation [that both conjunctive and prepositional uses are correct] covered actual usage perfectly, but it was probably too common-sensical—not sufficiently absolutist—to prevail.”
So in the end, we’re left with this. Than I and than me are both correct, in most cases. Than I is often regarded as more formal, but interestingly it’s the only one that can be clearly inappropriate.*** Using the nominative case blocks the noun phrase from being the object of the verb. I can’t write The wind chilled him more than I to mean that the wind chilled me less than it chilled him.
Sometimes this can be used to disambiguate; I love you more than him is ambiguous while I love you more than he isn’t. This only matters for clauses with objects, and in general, these tend not to be ambiguous given context, so the benefit of disambiguation must be weighed against the potentially over-formal tone of the nominative case. (I, for instance, think the second sentence above sounds less convincing, even though it’s clearer, because who talks about love so stiltedly?)
I’m branching a little off topic here, but I’d like to conclude with a general point from Priestley, a few paragraphs after the quote above:
“In several cases, as in those above-mentioned, the principles of our language are vague, and unsettled. The custom of speaking draws one way, and an attention to arbitrary and artificial rules another. Which will prevail at last, it is impossible to say. It is not the authority of any one person, or of a few, be they ever so eminent, that can establish one form of speech in preference to another. Nothing but the general practice of good writers, and good speakers can do it.”
Summary: Than can work as a conjunction or a preposition, meaning that than I/he/she/they and than me/him/her/them are both correct in most situations. The latter version is attested from the 16th century to the present day, by good writers in formal and informal settings. The belief that it is unacceptable appears to be a holdover from Latin-based grammars of English.
—
*: Interestingly, and counter to the mythology I learned from the Jim Carrey movie The Mask, Wikipedia suggests that Loki may not be so easily summarized as the god of mischief.
**: I’m pretty sure the use of obviate is a mistake here. I can just barely get a reading where it isn’t, if thinking of the full version of the sentence causes you to avoid the supposed mistake. But I suspect instead that our correspondent believes obviate means “make obvious”, in which case, ha ha, Muprhy’s Law
***: Is there a case where than me is undeniably incorrect? I can’t think of one.
27 comments
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June 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm
CaitieCat
He’s bigger than me am’ actually sounds ridiculous and obviates the mistake.
I’m with you, that’s not saying what he meant to say, to me. It’s grammatical: a mistake could be obviated, to me. But it’s not communicating the sense the commenter hopes for. Murphy indeed.
June 13, 2012 at 1:42 pm
Jonathon
I also can’t think of any instances where plain than me is undeniably incorrect. As you say, any claim that it’s incorrect rests on the assumption that than is only a conjunction.
And I had the same reaction to “obviate”. Even after twisting my brain in knots to try to make it work, I still don’t think it does. It seems like they really thought that it means “to make obvious”.
June 13, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Grammatical Pendantry: Comparatives in English, Greek & Latin « ΕΝ ΕΦΕΣΩ
[…] an excellent post on the blog Motivated Grammar about the I vs. Me peeve of grammar pendants, quoting a zdnet blog post on writing: 12. I/Me: We had several different […]
June 13, 2012 at 2:45 pm
the ridger
I like to compare it “before” – yes, it’s “he left before I did” but it’s not “he left before I”.
June 13, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Elizabeth Warren
Back when I worked at a university, the somewhat stilted “than I” was de rigeur.
June 14, 2012 at 12:10 am
GB Translation
“Than I” does sound stilted. In any case, another very well-written article about one very particular linguistic phenomenon. I enjoy coming here, even if it’s just for the scholarly dedication to these things.
June 14, 2012 at 3:40 am
Stan
Interesting history and a very helpful post, Gabe. The tricksy nature of than cropped up recently in a post I wrote about (faulty) parallelism, where a commenter took issue with this line from the London Review of Books: “they can judge a novel just as well if not better than us”. He felt the us should be we, but I pointed out that than can function either as a conjunction or as a preposition (and referred him to MWDEU). I suspect it’s something there’s a lot of uncertainty about.
On a side-note, I’m interested in your spelling of Muprhy’s Law. I usually spell the ironic version Muphry’s Law, which is more transparent phonetically.
June 14, 2012 at 3:55 am
Eugene
Yes. faulty parallelism is part of the problem. Here’s a non-faulty parallelism that supports the argument: He’s as tall as me. He’s as tall as I am.
Similarly, Ridger cited ‘before’ in both functions.
How many lexical items could we identify that serve as both conjunction and preposition? Why exclude ‘than’?
That’s not to say that some stylistic choices aren’t better than others; it’s just that being infelicitous in one situation doesn’t make a form ungrammatical generally.
June 15, 2012 at 6:12 am
Project Chiron
Reblogged this on Project Chiron and commented:
Very informative. We’re among those who were taught that “than I” is the correct choice, but the logical discussion here enlightened us. What stood out for us: Using “than I” or “than me” to disambiguate.
June 15, 2012 at 8:50 am
This Week’s Language Blog Roundup | Wordnik
[…] First taught us how to stop confusing pore and pour. Meanwhile, Motivated Grammar compared “than I” and than me” and the Grammar Monkeys told us about style and grammar, and why lots of things aren’t […]
June 15, 2012 at 10:59 am
Z
Wait, do you really think “I gave him it” is grammatical? I could only say, “I gave it to him.” (The rest of the post is good, of course.)
June 15, 2012 at 12:04 pm
CaitieCat
Try something other than “it” there.
“He gave her grief about it.”
“He gave her crabs.”
“She gave the dog a bone.”
June 16, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Z
Yeah, a full noun makes it fine. It’s the pronoun that makes it problematic.
June 17, 2012 at 3:57 am
CaitieCat
Fair enough – works for me (and Gabe, apparently) with a pronoun too, but that’s the joy of language, what’s grammatical to me is babytalk to you. :)
June 17, 2012 at 11:18 am
George
Nice work! The “than I/than me” problem is a bit analogous to the choice of “like” or “as.” It seems to have become accepted practice to use “like” when it is followed by a noun despite cases where a verb (which would require the use of “as”) could easily be assumed.
For example, consider “He runs like a gazelle.”
This is considered correct (I believe) even though it could easily be assumed to mean “He runs like a gazelle (runs).” In that case, it would correctly be written as “He runs as a gazelle (runs).”
April 2, 2013 at 11:57 am
PDS
Surely it is a lot simpler than that: it is a comparator – does it compare the subject or object of the preceding clause: ‘He loves you more than I [love you]’ versus ‘he loves you more than [he loves] me’ – which case you use (when done properly!) makes it clear what you mean.
The difficulty is usage is when the verb used is ‘to be’ where the subject (and any possible object) would be the the same thing. When asked ‘Who is the cleverest here?’ do you respond ‘It is I’ or ‘It is me’? Purists say the former, though I prefer the latter (perhaps showing that I am not the cleverest!).
Similarly, with ‘He is bigger than me’ or ‘He is bigger than I’ – we are comparing with the subject of the leading clause, so ‘I’ might be more correct. Stylisticly, I prefer the former as it is clearer that there is no further secondary clause: ‘He is bigger than I .. used to be/might ever be/thought I was’ – ‘He is bigger than me’ makes it clear that it is ‘me period’.
So the problem is not with ‘than’ but with the verb – and clarity of style/ being easy on the listener.
April 7, 2013 at 7:20 am
Lad
How about ‘I have lived here longer than he who lived here last’? ‘I have lived here longer than him who lived here last’ sounds ungrammatical, so perhaps a restrictive clause would necessitate the nominative.
April 27, 2013 at 1:25 am
Dr Zen
You don’t write “bigger than he”.
Analysing “bigger than I” as “bigger than I [am]” is a stretch because native speakers do not use constructions such as “He is bigger than a fish is” or “you are dumber than a box of rocks is” ever.
We also happily say “she knows more than him” and I doubt any native speaker would consider “you know more than we” to be anything other than a solecism, even though “you know more than we do” is clearly good English.
Utterances are reanalysed by every new native speaker, which leads over tie to a general reanalysis. This process is dictated by consensus, not some dude who wrote more than two centuries ago.
November 22, 2013 at 11:10 am
spielberg101
“This process is dictated by consensus, not some dude who wrote more than two centuries ago.” That’s obvious but just describes how language evolves. What’s fascinating, in the case Gabe precises so well, is how Rowth’s reverence for Latin led to bad grammar being taught as an ideal.
November 24, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Osmund Bullock
Immensely helpful, thank you. Despite being 62, and well educated in an English private school, this has always been an area that troubled me. I now know that I can (within reason) go whichever way I like, and will do so according to context and whim!
February 14, 2014 at 1:08 am
chris mike
please explain these sentences :
i. he loves her more than me
ii. he loves her more than i
Thank you
February 14, 2014 at 1:49 am
PDS
As I noted earlier, the comparator ‘than’ leads us to compare like with like, so ‘he loves her more than me’ would more naturally be interpreted as ‘he loves her more than he loves me’ comparing ‘me’ with ‘her’; whereas ‘he loves her more than I’ suggests that what is meant is ‘he loves her more than I love her’ as ‘he’ and ‘I’ are both nominative case. To be fair, it would be less ambiguous in the second case to just say ‘he loves her more than I do’, which is why I would avoid the second construction if I meant the first interpretation.
February 26, 2014 at 9:01 pm
Melanie Kerr
There is no way he means obviates. He means demonstrates, or something like.
Also, Jane Austen says “than me” and that, in my books, is argument enough. See Sanditon, Chapter 24: “his being so much more in the world than me”
February 26, 2014 at 9:02 pm
Melanie Kerr
Also, I thought I was the only person in the world who cared about flogisticated air.
July 24, 2014 at 8:54 pm
Mårten Hemström
Yes, I am Swedish, and we have the same grammatical problem and the same discussion. I always use this sentence to show how incorrect the object form is, unless it’s intended as an object:
“He ate more than her.” (It’s not ambiguous. It wrong grammatically. It means that he ate someone (maybe his sister) and continued with other dishes after that incident.
You make unlogical conclusion. The reason why you should write “He’s inviting more than us” is not that it’s “unavoidable”, as you put it. It’s because “us” is an object to “is inviting”.
Also, the reason to avoid “than me” is not because you have to follow latin grammar. Why should you? It’s because it’s the form that’s acceptable logically and which doesn’t cause hopeless misunderstandnings as “He ate more than her” or “You ate more than me”.
Please, don’t eat me, but feel free to eat more than I.
September 4, 2017 at 11:58 pm
smita
My friend earns more than you.
My friend earns more than you do.
Which one is correct?
November 28, 2017 at 12:36 pm
Bontae Wood
to my way of thinking, “He loves her more than me” means that he loves her more than he loves me. “He loves her more than I” means that he loves her more than I do. You just have to fill in the elliptical clauses.